Name Translations for Bookish Themes

Hello there!

I am currently trying to build a character for a campaign, and they need a secret elvish name. This character is furtive and bookish in nature, an erudite and librarian, but I am struggling on putting together names in Quenya and Sindarin. Language and grammar are concepts that both interest me and confuse me, but I am going to do my best!

My first attempt in Queyan is putting together a name meaning: 'hidden leaf' like the missing page of a book: halda + lassë

Would it be Haldalas?

And my first attempt in Sindarin for 'hidden leaf' is: dolen + lass

Would it be Lasdolin?

Their name in Common Tongue is 'Page', so I am trying to build something within that theme.

Well, there is nothing that says Thurilas's forbearer couldn't have a Quenya name, much like Elmo, Elwë, Olwë, Ingwë, Indis, Finwë, etc. Later, this name could be adapted into Noldorin. The Noldorin language was the precursor to the Sindarin language that Tolkien defined shortly before the publication of The Lord of the Rings.

I am still a bit fuzzy on this, as you have the Elves that left for Aman: the Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri, and those that stayed in Beleriand: the Sindar and Nandor. I have read The Silmarillion, but it is a lot to digest. LOL

For example, consider the names Elmo, Galadhon, Celeborn, Nimloth, Elwing, Elrond, Arwen, and Eldarion.

As you can see, it starts with Quenya, then transitions to Noldorin/Sindarin, and then back to Quenya with Eldarion.

So, you see, the names don't have to be directly related. I would just stick to the same order as the family lines to keep it cohesive.

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Thank you again!! Knowing that I can open up options for names in his forbears is both helping and giving me more options.

When I last read the Silmarillion I was very VERY young (around 8) so my digestion of the story is frail at best. I'm currently rereading through, though, and it IS a lot to digest.

ALSO I've been building some name options. I'm trying to build a Sindarin name meaning forest-wanderer or wandering-over-leaves. If there is a variation, as in a way to make two related names more or less meaning the same concept, then that would be perfect for the twins I'm trying to build names for.

Best attempts I have so far:

• Erynrandir - Forest Wanderer (styled after Aerandir, though I'm unsure of the way these words would compile together)
• Tharlasrandir - Over Leaves Wandering? (This one is a stab in the dark)

Forest Wanderer, this is one I have used myself. Although I use Torrandir not that you can't use S. eryn n. “wood, forest (of trees)”. But it would render as Erydhrandir [nr → ðr (dhr)]

Now for Over Leave Wanderer that is very tricky because I don't believe prepositions are apart of names.

And I believe -ssr- would render as Lathrandir (Leaf Wanderer). This is according to a Fan's guide to Neo-Sindarin.

You might wait to see if others have anymore input on it.

Rínor, you are the best!!

Is there a place where I can find how the words combine? Doing this in the dark is certainly leaving me with more misses than hits, and I am still determined to learn! OvO

I do really quite like the sound of Erydhrandir and Lathrandir.

No, not really. Compounds are one of the more complicated parts of Sindarin. There are a set of rules that govern the phonetics of Sindarin. Seen here.

And now that I think about it Erydhrandir might be Orudhrandir. Because i-intrusion, occurs only in the final syllable.

But I think I need a second set of eyes on this one.

It's me and I'm back again, coming up with more names for this story I'm working on! QwQ/

This time, I'm trying to build the name 'Forest Listener' and 'Moon Archer' or 'Moon Follower'.

Not the most ideal names to compound.

• Torlastor tor-LAS-tor “Forest-eavesdropper”or Orlas/Orlastor OR-las/or-LAS-tor Tree-listen √LAS² “listen” + orn “(tall straight) tree”.
• Ithilbenron i-thil-BEN-ron or Ronbenron ron-BEN-ron “Moon-archer” you could use Cúron CÚ-ron “crescent moon” (lit) cû bow + raun moon
• Ronvyr RON-vyr "Moon Follower" Using Raun + bŷr

Goodness, you're right O^O They are not the most ideal. That's so interesting, though! Making smooth and lyrical names in Sindarin is much harder than just stringing together romantic topics.

I am a bit "late to the party" (sadly I don't have much time for Elfdict these days), but here are some corrections for some of the forms suggested above; I apologise for the sudden and delayed criticism.

• Regarding Ronvyr: Note that the sequence -nv- is a potentially problematic one, it is not very well attested. There is this rule on Eldamo, with no examples or elaboration (the §... point towards sections in Salo's book that Paul intends to review); tentatively I'd suggest Baranduin as a potential example of this rule (*barani·duinē > ... baran·ðuin > Baranduin) - the lack of expected -nd- > -nn- may either indicate that it is a later formation (disqualifying it as an example), or it might be that this development is not expected in this situation at all, but more research is required on that front. Either way, either through this restopping of voiced spirants, or through some nasal mutation, I'd rather recommend the form Rombyr (or even Rambyr if it is taken to be an ancient formation).

• Regarding Ithilbenron / Ronbenron: Neither is well formed. What is BEN here anyway? This root means "corner", which makes no sense for "archer"; mutations ought to happen between the initial elements and this BEN, too; additionally, -nr- here should become -ðr- (as noted in a previous post). A word for "archer" can be found on Eldamo: pengron. With Ithil this should become Ithilphengron, and with Raun we could have, depending on the specifics of when the word was formed, forms such as Ramphengron, Rombengron, Rophengron.

• Regarding Cúron: There should be no reduction of the diphthong here due to the adjacent round vowel (ú), cf. Rhudaur, Gorthaur, Glaurung, etc. So this should be Cúraun.

• Regarding Erydhrandir / Orudhrandir: The form Erydhrandir should be fine as a late formation from eryn. The latter form however is incorrect, and i-intrusion is irrelevant here regardless; an ancient compound from ✶oroni·ran·ndēr would produce Eredhrandir, but it might have an unfortuante misinterpretation. Without the plural marker (i.e. with "tree" rather than "woods") we would get Orrandir. Overall I think the original form is the optimal one, if no ancient compound is needed.

• Regarding Thurilas: It is unclear to me why the L here is singular; as a late compound thurin + lass would produce Thurinlas, and in an older formation -nl- > -ll-. That being said, there's also the issue of the vowel: the (attested) form thurin is itself somewhat unusual. Assuming it is derived from THUR·inā, which seems to be a likely candidate for the etymology, we would normally expect it to produce the from *thoren, and *therin- in a compound (neither is attested); yet, we see Thuringwethil, Thuringud, and most puzzlingly Thurin on its own... It was suggested that the original form had a long vowel, as evidenced by e.g. Garthúrian, and the conceptual precursor of the word, Ilk. thúren; why the vowel would shorten is unclear... My advice would be to either stick to a long vowel (i.e. Thúrillas) - that is, if you must use this word to begin with.

• Regarding Lannolen and Lasdolin: The product of compounding lass + dolen would, IMO, be Lasdolen. The sequence -sd- is not the best attested, for sure, but it is attested in gasdil, which, seeing as such a sequence is predicted to be possible a priori, seems good enough to me for now.

I skimmed through most of the conversation so I am not sure if an answer was provided, but Harper asked what would be the product of compounding parf + dolen - the answer would be Pardolen. As for palt, I am unsure about the etymology of this word to begin with.

Ooof! Ellanto to the rescue. I can't believe I offered some of those. I bow to your wisdom my friend.