ve (2) pron. "we", 1st person pl. inclusive (corresponding to exclusive me), derived from an original stem-form we (VT49:50, PE17:130). Variant vi, q.v. Stressed wé, later vé (VT49:51). Dative (*wéna >) véna, VT49:14. Dual wet*, later vet "the two of us" (inclusive; cf. exclusive met) (VT49:51). Also compare the dative form ngwin or ngwen (q.v.), but this would apparently be wen > ven** according to Tolkiens later ideas.
Quenya
ve
pronoun. us, we (inclusive)
ve
preposition. as, like, similar, after the manner [of], as, like, similar, after the manner [of]; [ᴹQ.] with
ve
we
ve
as, like
ve (1) prep. "as, like" (Nam, RGEO:66, Markirya, MC:213, 214, VT27:20, 27, VT49:22); in Narqelion ve may mean either "in" or "as". Ve fírimor quetir *"as mortals say" (VT49:10), ve senwa (or senya) "as usual" (VT49:10). Followed by genitive, ve apparently expresses "after the manner of": ve quenderinwë coaron ("k") "after the manner of bodies of Elven-kind" (PE17:174). Tolkien variously derived Quenya ve from older wē, bē or vai(VT49:10, 32, PE17:189)
ve tauri lillassië
like leaves of forests
The fifteenth line of the Markirya poem (MC/222). The first word is ve “like”, followed the plural of taurë “forest” and the plural of the adjective lillassëa “having many leaves”, in agreement with the noun.
Decomposition: Broken into its constituent elements, this phrase would be:
> ve taur-i lillass-ië = “✱like forest-(plural) manyleaved-(plural)”
-vë
suffix. abstract noun, adverb
ve loicolícuma
a corpse-candle
The twentieth line of the Markirya poem (MC/222). The first word is ve “like” (not reflected in the English translation of the poem) followed by loicolícuma “corpse-candle”, a compound of loico “corpse” and lícuma “candle”.
Decomposition: Broken into its constituent elements, this phrase would be:
> ve loico-lícuma = “✱like corpse-candle”
ve maiwi yaimië
like gulls wailing
The fifth line of the Markirya poem (MC/222). The first word is ve “like”, followed by the plural of maiwë “gull” and the plural form of the adjective yaimëa “wailing” in agreement with the noun.
Decomposition: Broken into its constituent elements, this phrase would be:
> ve maiw-i yaim-ië = “✱like gull-(plural) wailing-(plural)”
-vë
as, like
-vë, (3) apparently an ending used to derive adverbs from adjectives (see andavë under anda and oiavë under oia). May be related to the preposition ve "as, like".
an sí varda, tintallë, elentári ortanë máryat oiolossëo ve fanyar
for now Varda, Star-kindler, Star-queen [has] lifted up her (two) hands from Mount Everwhite like (white) clouds
The 9th and 10th phrases of the prose Namárië, corresponding to the 9th and 10th lines of the poem. They are combined here for purposes of discussion because Tolkien moved words between the two lines. Tolkien dramatically reorganized the text from the poetic version as follows:
> an sí Tintallë Varda Oiolossëo ve fanyar máryat Elentári ortanë >>
an sí Varda, Tintallë, Elentári ortanë máryat Oiolossëo ve fanyar
Tolkien grouped together the three names of Varda (Varda, Tintallë, Elentári) as the subject of the phrase. He moved the object máryat “her (two) hands” immediately after the verb, which is the usual Quenya word order. He also moved the two modifying clauses, Oiolossëo “from Mount Everwhite” and ve fanyar “like (white) clouds”, to the end.
The revised Quenya ordering would match the poetic English translation quite closely if the phrase “from Mount Everwhite” were moved closer to the end:
> “for now the Kindler, Varda, the Queen of the Stars from Mount Everwhite has uplifted her hands like clouds” »»»
“✱for now Varda, the Kindler, the Queen of the Stars has uplifted her hands from Mount Everwhite like clouds”
yéni avánier ve lintë yuldar
years have passed away like swift draughts
The 3rd phrase of the prose Namárië. Tolkien altered the text from the poetic version as follows:
> yéni ve lintë yuldar avánier >> yéni avánier ve lintë yuldar
Tolkien moved the prepositional phrase ve lintë yuldar “like swift draughts” from between the subject and verb to behind the verb in the prose version. As this phrase functions adverbally (describing how the years are passing), it makes sense that it would follow the verb.
an sí tintallë varda oiolossëo ve fanyar máryat elentári ortanë
for now the Kindler, Varda, the Queen of the Stars from Mount Everwhite has uplifted her hands like clouds
Ninth and tenth lines @@@
valar ar maiar fantaner nassentar fanainen ve quenderinwe coar ar larmar
Valar and Maiar cloaked their true-being in veils, like to Elvish bodies and raiment
yéni ve lintë yuldar avánier
the years have passed like swift draughts
Third line @@@
yéni únótimë ve aldaron rámar
long-years not-countable as trees’ wings
The 2nd phrase of the prose Namárië. Tolkien altered the text from the poetic version as follows:
> yéni únótimë ve rámar aldaron >> yéni únótimë ve aldaron rámar
Tolkien moved the genitive element aldaron “trees’, of trees” to be before the noun it modifies: rámar “wings”. Elsewhere Tolkien indicated that the Quenya genitive can appear after the noun in ordinary speech (WJ/368), so perhaps either placement is acceptable.
úsië, an cé mo quernë cendelë númenna, ve senya
on the contrary, for if one turned the face westward, as was usual
Third phrase @@@
| |  I  | II |III|IV|  V  |VI|VII| |{lasi >> la >>}|lasir|>>|ūsir|úsir| |úsir|>> úsie| |{pan >> an >>}|an ké mo| |{nanquerne >> númequerna >>}|querne|{quernesse >>} quernes|querne|quere|querne| |immo|kanwarya|kendele| |númenna|(ve senya)|númenna| |(ve ...)| |(ve senwa)|(ve senya)|{i hyarma} númenna|ve senya|
náner ataformaitë ve fírimor quetir
*were ambidextrous as mortals say
yéni únótimë ve rámar aldaron
long years numberless as the wings of trees
Second line @@@
mai-
verb. to have, possess
An irregular verb for “have, possessive” in Late Notes on Verb Structure (LVS) from 1969 (PE22/148). The section where it appeared was struck through (PE22/148 note #24). It may have been supplanted by öa- “possess, own, keep” from the same bundle of documents (PE22/151).
taurelasselindon
like leaves of forests
taurelasselindon "like leaves of forests" (MC:213, 220; this is a "Qenya" similative form: taure-lasseli-ndon "forest-leaves-like")
-lë
suffix. abstract noun, adverb
-ië
suffix. abstract noun, adverb
-va
suffix. possessive or adjectival ending
-wa after consonants
sívë
as
sívë (1) prep. "as", apparently ve of similar meaning with the prefix sí- "this, here, now"; sívë therefore makes a comparison with something close, whereas tambë (q.v.) refers to something remote. Sívë...tambë "as...so" (VT43:17). Elided sív' in VT43:12, since the next word begins in the vowel e-.
vi
we
vi pron. "we", 1st person inclusive (PE17:130), variant of ve #2.
we
we
we, wé, see ve #2
-lmë
we
-lmë 1st person pl. pronominal ending: "we" (VT49:38; 51 carilmë *"we do", VT49:16). It was originally intended to be inclusive "we" (VT49:48), including the person(s) spoken to, but by 1965 Tolkien made this the ending for exclusive "we" instead (cf. the changed definition of the corresponding possessive ending -lma, see above). _(VT49:38) Exemplified in laituvalmet "we shall bless them" (lait-uva-lme-t "bless-shall-we-them") (the meaning apparently changed from inclusive to exclusive "we", VT49:55), see also nalmë under ná# 1. (LotR3:VI ch. 4, translated in Letters:308_)
-lwë
we
-lwë, later -lvë, pronominal ending "we" (VT49:51), 1st person pl. inclusive ending, occurring in the verbs carilwë "we do" (VT49:16) and navilwë (see #nav-). The ending became -lvë in later, Exilic Quenya (VT49:51). See -lv-.
-mmë
we
-mmë "we", 1st person dual exclusive pronominal ending: "I and one other" (compare the inclusive dual form -ngwë or -nquë). First written -immë in one source (VT49:57). Carimmë, "the two of us do" (VT49:16, cf. VT43:6). At an earlier conceptual stage, the ending was already exclusive, but plural rather than dual: vammë "we won't" (WJ:371), firuvammë "we will die" (VT43:34), etemmë ?"out of us" (VT43:36); see also VT49:48, 49, 55. Also compare the corresponding emphatic pronoun emmë (q.v.). The ending -lmë replaced -mmë in its former (plural exclusive) sense. In some early material, -mmë was apparently used as an ending for plural inclusive "we" (VT49:55).
-ngwë
we
-ngwë "we", 1st person dual inclusive pronominal ending: "thou and I" (compare the exclusive dual form -mmë). Caringwë, "the two of us do" (VT49:16). One source lists the ending as "-inke > -inque" instead (VT49:51, 53, 57; "inke" was apparently Old Quenya). In an earlier pronoun table reproduced in VT49:48, the ending -ngwë is listed as an alternative to -lmë, which Tolkien at the time used as the plural inclusive ending (a later revision made it plural exclusive).
emmë
we
emmë (2) pron. "we", emphatic pronoun; dative emmen (VT43:12, 20). In the source this pronoun is intended as the 1st person plural exclusive; later Tolkien changed the corresponding pronominal ending from -mmë to -lmë, and the plural emphatic pronoun would likewise change from emmë to *elmë. Since the ending -mmë was redefined as a dualexclusive pronoun, the form emmë may still be valid as such, as a dual emphatic pronoun "we" = "(s)he and I".
ier
as
ier prep. "as" (VT43:16, probably rejected in favour of sívë, q.v.). In an abandoned version of the Quenya Lord's Prayer, Tolkien used ier...ter for "as...so" (VT43:17).
lé
preposition. with
The preposition lé “with” was mentioned in a (rejected) etymology of S. di “with” in Tolkien’s notes on Words, Phrases and Passages from the Lord of the Rings (WPP) from the late 1950s or early 1960s (PE17/94), from the phrase le nallon sí __di__’nguruthos (LotR/729), usually translated “here overwhelmed in dread of Death, I cry”. In this note, Tolkien eventually decided that S. (n)di actually meant “beneath”, and its Quenya equivalent was Q. nî.
Conceptual Development: Prepositional ᴹQ. le also appeared in the Lament of Atalante from the 1940s, in the phrase ᴹQ. Númeheruvi arda sakkante __le__néme Ilúvatáren “the Lords of the West broke the world by [or with] leave of Ilúvatar” (SD/246, 310). Here “with” seems to be used in the instrumental sense “by means of”.
The Qenya Lexicon of the 1910s had ᴱQ. le “with (accompaniment)” under the early root ᴱ√LĒ (QL/52). Le was also mentioned in the contemporaneous Gnomish Lexicon as the equivalent of G. li “with (of accompaniment only)”, but also used to mean “and” between nouns (GL/54). In this period the instrumental preposition seems to be ᴱQ. ma, which appeared in a few phrases from ᴱQ. Sí Qente Feanor from the 1910s: ᴱQ. __ma__lto ísier i nosta “✱by those from whom this birth was known” and ᴱQ. nalto fustúme __ma__ Melkon “✱they can be smelled out by Melko” (PE15/32). Compare G. ma “with instrument or by agent” from the contemporaneous Gnomish Lexicon (GL/55).
Neo-Quenya: I would retain ᴺQ. lé for purposes of Neo-Quenya as a rarely-used instrumental preposition meaning “with, by (means of)”, reconceived as a derivative of √LEÑ “✱way, method, manner” (PE17/74).
me
we, us
me (1) 1st person pl. exclusive pronoun "we, us" (VT49:51; VT43:23, VT44:9). This pronoun preserves the original stem-form (VT49:50). Stressed mé (VT49:51). Cf. also mel-lumna "us-is-heavy", sc. *"is heavy for us" (LR:47, mel- is evidently an assimilated form of men "for us", dative of me; the form men is attested by itself, VT43:21). For me as object, cf. álamë** "do not [do something to] us", negative imperative particle with object pronoun suffixed (VT43:19: álamë tulya, "do not lead us"), ámen** "do [something for] us", imperative particle with dative pronoun suffixed (ámen apsenë "forgive us", VT43:12, 18). Dual exclusive met "we/us (two)" (Nam, VT49:51), "you and me" (VT47:11; the latter translation would make met an inclusive pronoun, though it is elsewhere suggested that it is rather exclusive: "him/her and me", corresponding to wet [q.v.] as the true inclusive dual form). Rá men or rámen "for us/on our behalf", see rá. Locative messë "on us", VT44:12 (also with prefix o, ó- ?"with" in the same source). See also ménë, ómë.
ya
as
ya (2) or yan, prep. "as" (VT43:16, probably abandoned in favour of sívë)
ye
as
[ye (3), also yé, prep. "as" (VT43:16, struck out; in the text in question Tolkien finally settled on sívë, q.v.)]
as
with
as prep. "with" (together with), also attested with a pronominal suffix: aselyë "with thee" (VT47:31, VT43:29). The conjunction ar "and" may also appear in assimilated form as before s; see ar #1.
as
with
o (2) prep. "with" (MC:216; this is "Qenya"; WJ:367 states that no independent preposition o was used in Quenya. Writers may rather use as.) See ó- below.
as
preposition. with
car-
with
#car- (2) prep. "with" (carelyë "with thee"), prepositional element (evidently an ephemeral form abandoned by Tolkien) (VT43:29)
lé
with
lé (2) prep. "with" (PE17:95)
ó
with, accompanying
This was the Quenya preposition for “as, like” for much of Tolkien’s life. Its first appearance was all the way back in the Qenya Lexicon of the 1910s where ᴱQ. ve “as, like” appeared under the early root ᴱ√VĪ “as” (QL/101), though in that document there was another preposition ᴱQ. se or sen “as, like, in manner of” under the root ᴱ√SĒ (QL/82). The preposition ᴱQ. ve was used for “like” in the Oilima Markirya poem from around 1930 (MC/213), but in the Quenya Verbal System (QVS) from 1948 was translated as “with” (PE22/119).
In the 1950s and 60s, ve appeared often with the translation “like” or “as”, most notably in the Namárië poem from The Lord of the Rings (LotR/377), the 1960s version of the Markirya poem (MC/222), and the Ambidexters Sentence from 1969 (VT49/6-8). In this period ve was given several different derivations, from ✶wē in 1957 (VT49/10), ✶bē in notes from the late 1950s or early 1960s (VT49/32), and ✶vai in notes from 1968 (VT49/32).